Comments on: What Bothers Me About Our Church… http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/ The official blog of Buckhead Church in Atlanta, GA. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:35:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Disappointed http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-9541 Disappointed Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:11:47 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-9541 After attending starting points in 06 and four years of attending small group with my wife I am finally getting fed up with the "seeker sensitive" church that just worries about numbers attending and not the depth of the members understanding. Today AGAIN after getting to the 11 service with my wife 9 year old, 3 year old and 2 year old we were once again turned off. This is the fourth time we have being turned away from Buckhead Church fourth time now we could not attend. because of no parking or our toddlers classrooms were full there was not were to sit for my wife and I. To ay after sitting in my car for 30 min to park we were told sorry no child parking so we pulled into the other parking deck and wow no spaces. By this time is is now 11:20. I can't help but wonder as I see people dresses as they were going to bar and almost 75% of the fellow yuppies carrying there designer coffee into church that maybe this is not what it is all about. Maybe it is about a small church where you can park and take your children to their classes and see some familiar faces of Christians who attend because they want to hear the word not for some other "social" motive like to be seen and look cool drinking coffee. Don t get me wrong if all these people actually converted or were taking the "word" serious but what is the actual conversion or does the church even know. It reminds me of a book I read where large churches are like rivers six miles wide but on 2 inches deep. After attending starting points in 06 and four years of attending small group with my wife I am finally getting fed up with the “seeker sensitive” church that just worries about numbers attending and not the depth of the members understanding. Today AGAIN after getting to the 11 service with my wife 9 year old, 3 year old and 2 year old we were once again turned off. This is the fourth time we have being turned away from Buckhead Church fourth time now we could not attend. because of no parking or our toddlers classrooms were full there was not were to sit for my wife and I. To ay after sitting in my car for 30 min to park we were told sorry no child parking so we pulled into the other parking deck and wow no spaces. By this time is is now 11:20. I can’t help but wonder as I see people dresses as they were going to bar and almost 75% of the fellow yuppies carrying there designer coffee into church that maybe this is not what it is all about. Maybe it is about a small church where you can park and take your children to their classes and see some familiar faces of Christians who attend because they want to hear the word not for some other “social” motive like to be seen and look cool drinking coffee. Don t get me wrong if all these people actually converted or were taking the “word” serious but what is the actual conversion or does the church even know. It reminds me of a book I read where large churches are like rivers six miles wide but on 2 inches deep.

]]> By: Jeff Henderson http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-5193 Jeff Henderson Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:53:41 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-5193 Tom - thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the encouragement as well as constructive criticism. I don't think we claim non-denominationalism. It's not really much of an issue with us. Instead, I think we simply claim Jesus. Thanks again for visiting. Jeff Tom – thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the encouragement as well as constructive criticism.

I don’t think we claim non-denominationalism. It’s not really much of an issue with us. Instead, I think we simply claim Jesus.

Thanks again for visiting.

Jeff

]]> By: Tom McMahan http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-5087 Tom McMahan Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:16:19 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-5087 Maybe I can offer an outsider viewpoint. I have been to your church once. I was dating someone at the time who goes there still. I'm Episcopalian, so I tend to be much more of a traditionalist when it comes to liturgy. But I can handle all kinds of services, I grew up Baptist. I will start with what I liked - the sense of energy was wonderful. The message delivered on the day I went was perfectly fine, I thought, in tune with the spirit of Jesus. I didn't mind the music. I've grown up listening to rock my whole life, so I can live with almost any kind of music as part of a church service. I don't believe services have to be just one way, What I didn't like: the "concert arena" feel of the church does not lend itself to reflection on the divine. There's too much "McChurch" selling of itself going on. At some point, you can't speak without hypocrisy of not being of the world and yet dragging so much of a commercial feel into the place that you are, in fact, very much of the world. I will say this...some of the other mega-churches are far worse at this than this one. I don't believe you've resorted to giving away cars and things like that, thank God. Please don't. I thought the "holographic" minister bit was...well...freaky. (sorry) I don't understand how anyone can feel connected to a church where you seldom if ever meet your minister face-to-face. Technology is wonderful...I'm a techno-geek myself, so while I was impressed with the presentation in that sense, it left me feeling a bit cold in an emotional sense. Finally, a mild complaint. I know its "hip" to claim non-denominationalism, if that's a word even. I'm ecumenical in my view of religion. But denominations have formed over time for real reasons, reasons of theology and liturgy. Large churches like this one try to bring in facets from all over, as does ours, and I applaud that. But at the end of the day...its a Baptist church, ok? Truth in advertising may hurt the numbers, but we should always serve the Truth, and you can't do that without being honest about all the truths concerning yourself and where you're coming from. Maybe I can offer an outsider viewpoint. I have been to your church once. I was dating someone at the time who goes there still. I’m Episcopalian, so I tend to be much more of a traditionalist when it comes to liturgy. But I can handle all kinds of services, I grew up Baptist.

I will start with what I liked – the sense of energy was wonderful. The message delivered on the day I went was perfectly fine, I thought, in tune with the spirit of Jesus. I didn’t mind the music. I’ve grown up listening to rock my whole life, so I can live with almost any kind of music as part of a church service. I don’t believe services have to be just one way,

What I didn’t like: the “concert arena” feel of the church does not lend itself to reflection on the divine.

There’s too much “McChurch” selling of itself going on. At some point, you can’t speak without hypocrisy of not being of the world and yet dragging so much of a commercial feel into the place that you are, in fact, very much of the world. I will say this…some of the other mega-churches are far worse at this than this one. I don’t believe you’ve resorted to giving away cars and things like that, thank God. Please don’t.

I thought the “holographic” minister bit was…well…freaky. (sorry) I don’t understand how anyone can feel connected to a church where you seldom if ever meet your minister face-to-face. Technology is wonderful…I’m a techno-geek myself, so while I was impressed with the presentation in that sense, it left me feeling a bit cold in an emotional sense.

Finally, a mild complaint. I know its “hip” to claim non-denominationalism, if that’s a word even. I’m ecumenical in my view of religion. But denominations have formed over time for real reasons, reasons of theology and liturgy. Large churches like this one try to bring in facets from all over, as does ours, and I applaud that. But at the end of the day…its a Baptist church, ok? Truth in advertising may hurt the numbers, but we should always serve the Truth, and you can’t do that without being honest about all the truths concerning yourself and where you’re coming from.

]]> By: Jeff Henderson http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-5047 Jeff Henderson Tue, 05 Jan 2010 04:12:37 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-5047 Jeremy -- great comment. I hear what you're saying. I have nothing against small churches. I was raised in small churches. I'm a preacher's kid. I've been around small churches all my life and have benefited from them. However, when I hear people talk about small churches, it's as if less people automatically equals greater spiritual obedience. In many cases, I have seen just the opposite. Again, I have nothing against small churches. I do think churches should grow, though. Typically, when people describe why they think small churches are better it starts with what the church can do for them. It's my experience that we will never understand what the church can do for us until we experience what the church wants to do through us. And part of what the church is called to do is to reach people, i.e. grow. When a church stays small and no one new is coming through, it's my experience that in time the church will eventually implode. Having said this, the beauty of the local church is that there are many, wonderful expressions. What might work for one person might not work for another. I appreciate and value that diversity of expression. However, it's unjustifiable scripturally to judge a church as invalid based on how many people attend. Thanks for listening as well. Jeff Jeremy — great comment. I hear what you’re saying. I have nothing against small churches. I was raised in small churches. I’m a preacher’s kid. I’ve been around small churches all my life and have benefited from them. However, when I hear people talk about small churches, it’s as if less people automatically equals greater spiritual obedience. In many cases, I have seen just the opposite. Again, I have nothing against small churches. I do think churches should grow, though.

Typically, when people describe why they think small churches are better it starts with what the church can do for them. It’s my experience that we will never understand what the church can do for us until we experience what the church wants to do through us. And part of what the church is called to do is to reach people, i.e. grow.

When a church stays small and no one new is coming through, it’s my experience that in time the church will eventually implode. Having said this, the beauty of the local church is that there are many, wonderful expressions. What might work for one person might not work for another. I appreciate and value that diversity of expression. However, it’s unjustifiable scripturally to judge a church as invalid based on how many people attend. Thanks for listening as well.

Jeff

]]> By: Jeremy http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-5043 Jeremy Tue, 05 Jan 2010 03:42:44 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-5043 Jeff, thanks or sharing your convictions. As Martin Luther famously said, "To go against conscience is neither right nor safe." These are my thoughts after reading your post: You stated that what bothers you is "that there are still more unchurched people than ever before just ten miles from the front door of the church that you and I call home" and then, "The good news is that our church continues to grow. The bad news is that the number of the unchurched in Buckhead is growing faster. This bothers me." I think what confuses me about what you're saying is not knowing why it's specifically the "unchurched" that are your burden. The way you use the word "unchurched" throughout makes it sound synonymous with "unsaved" which obviously is a distinctly different idea. And if I had to pick between the two as to which ought to weigh heavier - it would be the unsaved. Then, when feeling that you have to clarify that "It's not about Buckhead Church", only exacerbates the problem for me. I believe what causes Lee and many others to lash out is seeing popularity associated with the Gospel. Especially after reading scriptures like Luke 6:26, Matthew 10:21, Romans 8:16, Phillipians 1:29, 2 Timiothy 1:8, ect. Though high numbers do raise red flags, I cannot prove from Scripture that a church should never consist of more than three hundred or so people, but I would argue that a church which is so big that the pastor who preaches cannot know every member by name, and something about their daily lives, needs, and struggles, is a church where the pastor cannot easily fulfill the obligations of a biblical shepherd of God’s flock. Put bluntly, I want to be in a church where my absence on Sunday will soon be noticed and where the pastor or elders can draw alongside me and ask the pertinent questions. I want to be in a church where the eldership takes note if my behavior towards others is sub-par on a Sunday (hinting at much worse in private). I want to be in a church where I pray for the leadership and where they pray for me—not just in a generic sense of being part of the membership, but informed prayer based on real relationships. In other words, I want to be in a church where my pastor is, well, my pastor and not just that guy who is preaching over there in the distance on a Sunday morning. Put yourself in a small, faithful church, and the pastor is more than likely to hold you accountable to the basics of Christian belief and practice. (In addition, from my experience of currently being in a BC small group and my roommate being the leader, the argument that small groups are designed to suffice as that accountablity is not a valid arguement.) As it's said, "Buckhead Church is a church for the unchurched." However, I am strongly convinced that the church is for the church. We are His beloved and He is ours. Without any harshness or irrational lashing out, I will continue to be grieviously bothered when my brothers and sisters say they go to Buckhead Church, wishing they would at least only call it "Buckhead Ministries." That is all. Thanks for listening! Jeff, thanks or sharing your convictions. As Martin Luther famously said, “To go against conscience is neither right nor safe.”
These are my thoughts after reading your post:
You stated that what bothers you is “that there are still more unchurched people than ever before just ten miles from the front door of the church that you and I call home” and then, “The good news is that our church continues to grow. The bad news is that the number of the unchurched in Buckhead is growing faster. This bothers me.”
I think what confuses me about what you’re saying is not knowing why it’s specifically the “unchurched” that are your burden. The way you use the word “unchurched” throughout makes it sound synonymous with “unsaved” which obviously is a distinctly different idea. And if I had to pick between the two as to which ought to weigh heavier – it would be the unsaved. Then, when feeling that you have to clarify that “It’s not about Buckhead Church”, only exacerbates the problem for me.
I believe what causes Lee and many others to lash out is seeing popularity associated with the Gospel. Especially after reading scriptures like Luke 6:26, Matthew 10:21, Romans 8:16, Phillipians 1:29, 2 Timiothy 1:8, ect.
Though high numbers do raise red flags, I cannot prove from Scripture that a church should never consist of more than three hundred or so people, but I would argue that a church which is so big that the pastor who preaches cannot know every member by name, and something about their daily lives, needs, and struggles, is a church where the pastor cannot easily fulfill the obligations of a biblical shepherd of God’s flock. Put bluntly, I want to be in a church where my absence on Sunday will soon be noticed and where the pastor or elders can draw alongside me and ask the pertinent questions. I want to be in a church where the eldership takes note if my behavior towards others is sub-par on a Sunday (hinting at much worse in private). I want to be in a church where I pray for the leadership and where they pray for me—not just in a generic sense of being part of the membership, but informed prayer based on real relationships. In other words, I want to be in a church where my pastor is, well, my pastor and not just that guy who is preaching over there in the distance on a Sunday morning. Put yourself in a small, faithful church, and the pastor is more than likely to hold you accountable to the basics of Christian belief and practice. (In addition, from my experience of currently being in a BC small group and my roommate being the leader, the argument that small groups are designed to suffice as that accountablity is not a valid arguement.)
As it’s said, “Buckhead Church is a church for the unchurched.” However, I am strongly convinced that the church is for the church. We are His beloved and He is ours. Without any harshness or irrational lashing out, I will continue to be grieviously bothered when my brothers and sisters say they go to Buckhead Church, wishing they would at least only call it “Buckhead Ministries.” That is all. Thanks for listening!

]]> By: katie http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4974 katie Fri, 01 Jan 2010 12:32:13 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-4974 we're in! My husband and I are all in! Thank you for the encouragement to do such things - not sure we would have taken the time to really think and pray through it, but you have motivated us! I am excited and thrilled to see Gods work through this! Happy New Year! we’re in! My husband and I are all in! Thank you for the encouragement to do such things – not sure we would have taken the time to really think and pray through it, but you have motivated us! I am excited and thrilled to see Gods work through this!
Happy New Year!

]]> By: Marlene http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4970 Marlene Fri, 01 Jan 2010 04:41:59 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-4970 I am joining you on a "Daniel" fast in an effort to draw closer to God and in hope of drawing others into relationship with God, through Buckhead Church, which is near and dear to my heart. Amen! I am joining you on a “Daniel” fast in an effort to draw closer to God and in hope of drawing others into relationship with God, through Buckhead Church, which is near and dear to my heart. Amen!

]]> By: jeff henderson http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4951 jeff henderson Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:30:53 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-4951 Thanks Katie! Jeff Thanks Katie!

Jeff

]]> By: Katie http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4919 Katie Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:36:49 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-4919 Today I read this article and scripture post and thought of our fast, wanting it to be the one the Lord desires. Looking forward to what He will do! http://takeyourvitaminz.blogspot.com/2009/12/anybody-seen-pati.html Today I read this article and scripture post and thought of our fast, wanting it to be the one the Lord desires. Looking forward to what He will do!

http://takeyourvitaminz.blogspot.com/2009/12/anybody-seen-pati.html

]]> By: jeff henderson http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/12/22/what-bothers-me-about-our-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4914 jeff henderson Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:15:17 +0000 http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/?p=2527#comment-4914 Erin - that's great. Thanks for joining in on the fast. Jeff Erin – that’s great. Thanks for joining in on the fast.

Jeff

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